A I S E H M A N . O R G

If the malays in Malaysia see themselves as muslims first, then we are heading in the wrong direction as far as this country is going. Why? Malaya was borne not of one ethnic community, and Malaysia was borne with a much more diverse citizenry. The muslims, more aptly, the malays here must realise that this country can only move ahead and prosper, if they can forgo their 'ketuanan melayu' attitude. As it pains me to say this, malays (muslims) hold on to the believe that this country is inherently theirs by birth-right.
Yes, we have the sultanates in the past that gave the malays the illusion of ancestral heritage but we also know the history of Islamic introduction in Malacca. What were we before Parameswara?
Malaysia's political future is not going to be based on how 'Islamic' this country should become, which, unfortunately, is how UMNO is propagating to the detriment of the malays. The BN concept(a derivative of the Alliance) worked to an extent, but BN(2006) has not come with a winning formula when it comes to uniting the citizens.
Muslims should always be fundamentally muslims, there is no two ways about it. You fulfil the five pillars of Islam, then you are fundamentally a muslim. That's what I believe in. BUT, throw in the element of 'politics', then we have moderate,
radical, fanatical, etc and whatever other descriptions. And for heavens' sake, what is Islam Hadhari?
AAB coined it, then he 'forgot' to explain it to the malays and non-malays. Are there 'living' examples of his Islamic vision?
I cannot remain SILENT anymore!!!

You have gone right at the heart of the scale of the issue i.e. how you convince more educated Muslim that somehow its "wrong" to be Muslim first. Someone once said that the most ignorant person is not the illiterate but the semi-literate. The illiterate looks to his heart and soul or his humanity for answers to his simple life and ignore the rest but the semi-literate is confused between his understanding of the issues and his lack-of-understanding of the solution, his desire to solve the problem but his selfishness of gain from solving the problem.

In other words, now that you understand the difficulty, the question is not how but whether should you not? If the problem is so hard, don't you think its all the more important that you participate rather than hessitate?

' "The minds of politicians, judges and civil servants have become clouded as they see themselves as Muslims first and citizens second," said Malik.'

In Islam and Secularism by Al-Attas of ISTAC, he emphasized and maintained a good muslim supersedes a good citizen for a muslim...

Like John Lennon said..all we need is love.

I believe those so called defenders of secularism, civil law and democratic rights are making snap judgements and blowing their trumpets out of very thin air.

To say that moderates and non-muslims are fearful of incursion of Islamic Shariah law in to their private space is too broad and sweeping a statement. How many are fearful? What is there to be fearful of?. Are we not already living in an Islamic state?

Is the country moving towards an Islamic theocratic state and it citizen's fundamental rights eroding over the years? Is there a clash between constitutional laws and islamic laws? Can they provide facts and evidence to support what they allege to be true?

And finally, how can muslims not see themselves as muslims first? To make artificial distinctions and to allege that some people see themselves as muslim first and therefore as citizens second is so ridiculous that it invalidate what ever rights this so called defenders are trying to advocate.

Being a lowly nobody nothing nobody like myself, I adopt the following principles in life:

I am a muslim first and should adhere to the five tennets of islam before anything else. No doubt I have been slacking a lot but the conscience to be a better muslim for the sake of my generation is always paramount.

Regardless of all my secularism and liberalism practices, I am conscience enough to know that my faith comes first in the end.

I detest any form of self righteous propaganda AND any movement to show that democratic and civil law is superior than God's law. Non-compliance in Gods law is one thing but to deny it is a different thing altogether. For if I did, then I wouldnt bother still calling myself a muslim. If I didnt think islam is complete, I would have converted overseas or become an atheist a long time ago.

So how can you make me think that Im a Malaysian First and Muslim second?

Is too simplistic to suggest that Muslims cannot reconcile their faith with the rights of others. To suggest that implies the typical stereotype..."It has to be Islam and nothing else"!!.

Muslims firstly see themselves as compassionate and fair..as with people of other religions. "Seeing themselves as Muslims first" is merely a label. Is the convenient way for Islamists to brush aside the view of others. For many Malaysians regardless of religion, there is a genuine concern about the application of Common Law and Shariah Law in the context of the Constitution,

Well, without appearing to be pessimistic or unrealistic, I think for most Muslims, Malays or non-Malays, rural or urban, educated or illiterate, religious or ignorant - for them being Muslim always supercedes being Malaysian, or being Malay, for that matter.

And that includes this semi-illiterate Malay, local and western educated liberal in me :).

tron:

I appreciate what you are saying and in agreement with you that in the final analysis, faith in God must takes precedence over any man made civil laws which are imperfect.

What I somewhat disagree is over what comes first, faith or citizenship. Why? Because in the same light, a non muslim can also ask " so how can you make me think I am a Malaysian first and Buddhist, or Hindu or Atheist second? So where will all these lead to and what will such artificial distinction achieve.

In the spiritual realm, I would agree because our earthly citizenship does not really matter because all human beings regardless of race and gender are creatures made and loved by God.

Is it fair to others choose what they believe in?
Civil rights and democratic rights are the foundation for a proper government. Keeping a religion at the forefront of our government and laws alienates those who aren't of muslim descent. Would it really be detrimental to muslims if Civil law/rights took the forefront in the makeup of our country?

I am not sure whether i made any sense but, it's my 2 cents :P

For notso...

Civil rights is not another set of beliefs. It is a set of guidelines that flows hand in hand with the religious outlook of our society. This so there is no special treatment among anyone in the country and that we are treated and tried fairly by the same set of rules. I personally don't see it being bad, it promotes more tolerance between us all, i think.

The basis of this country is the constitution. anything that is against the constitution is not allowed and can be challenge in a court of law. The english version regains supreme. This is an agreement that was signed by our fore fathers and the british was very clear without all races in agreement, there would not have been independence. off course some may argue differently but that is what is said by all those who were there at that time.Remember the british by this time have learned a lot about giving independence and would have learned from mistakes, India, Pakistan, Palestine&israel.

Now that some muslims have become more religious and at times more muslim than others even the arabs, should they throw away the agreement? What does that say about muslims? If they want throw away the agreement cos some feel that they are muslims and can't live in a country where the constitution is against their beliefs, then please tear up other agreements in this country that is against the people as well. and just tell the rest so, no need to hide behind rules and do a wayang kulit. To be honest is taught by all religion.

Just look at muslims countries, what is the status of this muslim countries. anyone of them are shining example of a muslim country that people will want to use as an example.Yes some have consitution and some are ruled by gods laws.But which country is a good example? and the law of gods, also have many interpretation and that is by men and some cases different findings on the same issue? and why are there still many problems in this countries?

yes there are lots of concern by non muslims on the direction we are headed. Judges who do not uphold what they are suppose to do is one. If they have an issue on religious beliefs, they should step aside or become a syariah judge, where hundreds of muslim women are having problems that has not been solved.a non muslims has no remedy in any court in this country? will it fair if it the other way round? No!! Just look at the schools, the imposing of dress codes on non muslims. Is that fair?Imposing on dress codes on muslims is also not fair and the muslims right fully protest.but the way around is ok?

which one comes first is important to some and it is just a label.But important issues like being fair, against corruption,ethical, kind etc is thrown out of the door. People just want to show houlie than thou attitude in Malaysia.

Jonn:

You are right if we are living in a perfect world. Injustice occurs in every society and country. At the heart of man is the capacity for evil and good and often times self centredness is the core problem.

For muslims in general, civil and democratic rights are not the only foundation for a proper government. Because Islam is a Complete way of life and Shariah is the key to what Islam is all about.

How than are non-muslims to respond to the above reality? In my humble opinion, not by being confrontational but by showing understanding and kindness in face of the tension within the Islam brotherhood.

Then what about muslims in this country who no longer want to be muslim? Can they not choose? Why must religion be the base of the country's laws? I am not sure why. All i know is that i wouldn't force my opinion/belief (Within reason of ethics) on others. I currently feel alienated already by this structure as i am a non malay. Already i feel like your answer or others may answer "fine then leave Malaysia." I believe that i have as much right to this country as you do, is that not fair?

Non muslims don't get to say much about the current reality. Even if we did there isn't much being done about it.

Is the real issue here choice? Or just religion in the government?

Jonn:

Freedoom to choose is always limited by one's previous choices or choices made by others. There are certain things that cannnot be changed without dire consequences. And there are certain things we cannot choose. For example, we cannot choose our parents, our sex nor the place we are born.

To a certain extent our destiny is predestined and yet we have the responsibiliy to change the things we can. The wisdom to know the difference on what we can change and what we cannot change is given by God.

There is no compulsion in any religion. God is sovereign and he does not compel anyone to believe in him. Yes, some self righteous people may impose their beliefs on others but history has shown that it is futile to do so.

I really feel sad that you feel alienated by this structure. My answer is let us understand and be kind to one another more and more as you have as much right as it is accorded to any citizen in this country.

For obvious reaons, non muslims have not much say in Islamic matters and some would say no say at all. To say is not a choice but to do is a choice. I believe that we should say less but listen more.

In my humble opinion, it will be good thing if more non muslims learn to read and understand the Holy Quran and other religious books because there are a number of misconceptions about religions in general.

I figure we aren't going to change each other's minds. I shall just say that it shall be an interesting future, frustrating for some and weird for others :P

Malik said.... "The minds of politicians, judges and civil servants have become clouded as they see themselves as Muslims first and citizens second,"

Mr. Malik could fall 'Murtad' if he intends to jeopardize the status of Islam! But what a coincidence; because in Islam Malik means the Guardian of Hell...

My good buddy, Keith, once taught me an interesting concept. He said that the Confucius approach to dealing with difficult people (and difficult situations) is to adopt the view that everything in life is a learning experience.

So, when someone gives you trouble, you should say, "Thank you for being my teacher," to such people, he said, because in dealing with such difficult people, you get practical training in patience and understanding.

The misconceptions about Islam are not new. There is no compulsion to be a Muslim. However, once you submit as a Muslim you follow what Islam tells. Simple elementary!

The word 'Islam' is best translated with 'submission [under the will and guidance of God]', but it has a deeper meaning by coming from the same Arabic root (s-l-m) as 'salam', peace, and 'salama', safety and security. Hence, the word 'Islam' explains large parts of the central core of the religion.

Muslim live to served only Allah. We live and Die for Islam and we are guided within it... a real Muslim dream that His last breath is His last testimony that "There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger".

A clear situation on what’s the real problem is. It is technical in disruption, be it judiciary, platforms of which court or even the constitutional. So, do not dwell about Islam the religion that you have no proper knowledge about.

Also, calling the Sharia 'law' can be misleading, as Sharia extends beyond law. Sharia is the totality of religious, political, social, domestic and private life. Sharia is primarily meant for all Muslims, but applies to a certain extent also for people living inside a Muslim society. Muslims are not totally bound by the Sharia when they live or travel outside the Muslim world.

Dogmatically, Sharia is not something the intelligence of man can prove wrong, it is only to be accepted by humans, since it is based on the will of God. This is clear from what we read in the Koran:

QURAN Chapter 45: The Chapter of the Kneeling
17 ...then we gave you a Shariah in religion, follow it, and do not follow the lust of those who do not know...

The regulations of the Sharia can be divided into two groups:
1. regulations on worship and ritual duties
2. regulations of juridical and political nature

But despite this, many parts of the Shariah have no or little importance in most Muslim societies nowadays, except in those that have gone through a phase of Islamization. But the Shariah has much importance in domestic judicial fields like family, marriage and inheritance.

Fiqh is the science of Shariah, and is sometimes used as synonymous with it. Fiqh is collected in a number of books which are studied by students and used by the ulama. These books are studied and interpreted according to rules found in school, madhhab, the student or learned man belongs to. But most people belonging to the ulama cannot interpret freely the fiqh- books, this is a right reserved for the mufti, who can issue fatwas, 'legal opinions'.

The modernist movement in Islam has opposed the traditional view of Shariah stating that the law cannot be changed by man, insisting that it should be applied to the actual situation and new ideas, meaning that new interpretations are allowed.

Dear BPC,
Your first two paragraph sounded sarcastic about Mr Malik. He speaks of the constitution and you define him as a 'heretic'.
BPC, Malaysia is not one community where ALL are muslim.
Your comment sounds knowledgable..to the muslims in this country but carrys no weight to others who are not.
If you have sweared an oath to defend the constitution, and donot fulfil that oath, then can you call yourself true muslim?
Mr Malik speaks for the entire Malaysian community
when he said what he said. Who do you speak for? Allah? Islam? The muslims in this country?
What about the rest?
Your comments is typical of a muslim trying to be smart but not actually helping to solve the problem. So, you might say -What's the problem?
Look around, WE MUSLIMS are not the only people here in Malaysia. Or the whole world for that matter.
So tell me, if you can, what should we do? There is a solution if you look beyond and within ourself. But, do you dare to question the 'TRUTH'? Think about it.

Dear BPC,

Absolutely, ya and just follow what you are told to do! Simple elementary!

NOW THAT'S WISDOM!

The paragraph on the QURAN thingy. Well I absolutely agree and today my neighbour just got himself a new pet with a name called Mimi The Cat and fonds of expired chili tuna.